When I was a teenager, just as many teenagers are, I was obsessed with music. In particular, I loved metal, and more specifically I loved black metal. Of all the bands that got me through those years, and inspired me heavily, there was one that seemed to grow up with me. The music changed as I did. It was always a band I could go back to, and one that had music that I could always listen to. It was from a band known as Xasthur. Scott Conner is the man behind this project, an array of music that shaped a lot of my tastes. Over this last week or so I’ve gotten to know the man behind this legendary project, and I hope that this interview can only inspire you all, and have just a shred of the meaning it did for me. Without any further hesitations, I present, An Evening with Xasthur.
Words Beyond The Chords
Tell the audience about yourself.
There might not be a lot to tell, other than creating music is my life or who I am, thats just the way it turned out.
When it comes to some of the earlier stuff that was black metal, and even now with the more dark acoustic folk, where do you tend to draw inspiration from?
I’ve made the move to music, to allow for the possibly of anything or everything.
I don’t think people stop hearing voices and seeing things in their head, whether they’re inspired or not, I’m sure they hear them when they’re not trying to, so the same goes for sound and music. I don’t need to wait around to be inspired. It’s more of a calling, one that needs to be answered. That’s where I draw inspiration from. I think a lot of people confuse the word inspiration for words like motivation, need and intent when they say they can’t find it. If you have those things, you may have inspiration.
So the Xasthur project, as well as Nocturnal Poisoning, is all you. Every vocal and instrument through the tracks is all you. You’ve said in interviews before that if you hear an instrument you like you will learn to play it. What is your process in learning these instruments and has there been any that you have struggled with in that learning process?
I think you just have to make up your mind, have a need, want or reason to do something musically, if so, you’ll do it one way or another. I’m not going to give up while I’m waiting around for a tuba player to rescue me, so to speak. I’m not literally talking about a tuba, by the way, but if that’s what I needed, I couldn’t expect anyone else to do it.
I’ll find an unorthodox way, if I have to figure out a mandolin with my fingers instead of a pick, if I have to play a 12 string as if it were a 6 string, play a banjo as if it were a 12 string, change the turnings to suit my ear or hands, that’s what I’ll do. I used to bang on a piano not worrying about right or wrong when I was 10. It was about remembering whatever I did that was right, you take that with you, not the wrong. I don’t worry about “official pianist” or “official genre”. To me it would be more about one’s own take or approach on the blues, a piano, jazz, a trumpet etc.
I failed with cello though, I might’ve just lost interest or I could tell I just wasn’t going to get what I needed from it. Nocturnal Poisoning was a temporary name. I didn’t do the signing during that time.
Cacophony of The Mind
Are you a fan of the horror genre? Do you derive any influence from the genre?
There’s at least two horror soundtracks that I really like a lot, Haunting of Julia and Carrie 1976. I’ll watch any movie, it doesn’t have to be horror.
What inspired the change from black metal to the dark folk sound that you have currently?
When I realized I could do more and create chords, rhythms and patterns I’d never heard before in black metal. When I realized I’d be better at picking 12 strings instead of 2 or 3 and something so small like a guitar pick had been holding me back and slowing me down for years. When I found nothing but limitations in black metal and could not find anything new within it, those were the reasons why I was never improving with it. I knew it would be more work to do what I’m doing now but that it would also be a lot easier to do anything else and that I wouldn’t be repeating myself.
Your latest releases are Euphoric Bad Trip, and Inevitably Dark, I’ve listened to it and very much enjoyed it. Are these tracks at all related? Is there any story behind either of them?
Thank you. They both just capture a certain mood in a certain moment I think. These aren’t the ones that would’ve had stories; they’re more instrumental than other instrumentals. I expected the song Inevitably Dark and Euphoric Bad Trip to be very different from each other but when Prophecy shared them both a few weeks apart, I realized they were even more different than I realized or hoped for. Of course there’s the rest of it, which is even more different than those two. I do recall that Euphoric was written pretty fast.
To Create A Throne Blacker than Death
When you are writing music, what do you feel is your process? Some musicians I’ve interviewed start with a sort of ‘mental story’ that they want the song to tell. Others start with a simple riff they can’t get out of their head. Can you take us through writing a song?
Good question, people dont ask things like this anymore… Each song is usually written 3 times or 3 different ways, but separately. The lyrics usually start with a sentence, a rhyme, a question or a verse and then the next 4 or 5 pages just write themselves rolling off of that. This is all done separately, I don’t do it in between writing music and recording it. I’ll write for weeks and then just stop for months.
The music part, I tend to see or hear shapes and patterns of sound in my head, or sounds of shapes. I see it and hear it, simultaneously, and then I just know how to find it like solving a puzzle in a song.
Or I’ll hear and see some of it, a beginning. I’ll find it and then find the rest of it based off where the beginning can go. I won’t let it end after just a couple notes.
If needed, I’ll hear it backwards, if I let it, then it’ll change. I’ll try it out of the order I wrote it and heard it in originally, plus I’ll throw in a surprise or two to just to surprise myself.
It’s also just a feeling I get, that something’s going to happen. If I don’t think I’m hearing it, I know I’ll listen or it’ll come to me if i start something new. I act on it and capture it instead of losing it.
The reason why I’m doing what I’m doing these days is because I have about 12 or 13 non-standard tunings I use. I think I’ve become in tune, in harmony or disharmony with them and vice versa. There is a lot of what I’m hearing or imagining that I can find. I hardly ever hear a standard D or E in my head, so that was always hard to work with and match, it was like having to use a broken paintbrush to paint a vision I had or playing with a handicap. I let myself interrupt myself, if I’m really on a roll or if it’s all coming together quickly.
Each part can be different than the last but it’s usually in the order the interruptions happen, it makes for bizarre and not so predictable changes when it happens, ones that don’t work, but I’ll make them work. I really like when the interruptions and changes happen in the middle of a “riff”, for example. It makes sense to me, because in my mind I’m interrupting myself all the time. I’m probably doing it now.
Over the past few years I’ve become pretty strict on my work ethic or guidelines, if it barely sounds like someone else, then something must’ve gotten in the way, I don’t let it slide, it gets discarded. I don’t settle for incomplete riffs, either (something with too few notes or chords in it). I also make it a point to get the to the point more than I used to, I don’t need songs to be 10 minutes anymore. Making sure I do a lot in the few minutes is fine. Having these guidelines and other ones have helped me become more satisfied with the songs, even later on.
I usually film a few parts so I remember them later that night or the next night. In between that, I’ll make or write beats and then I’ll record it live on an 8 track after I’ve put it in whichever order I can or want. Then it’s recorded live, as is, start to finish I don’t use any software or laptops because I want it to sound and actually be live. It’s all a routine believe it or not.
Third is writing the song all over again and writing it differently, bass playing. Bass is usually last, but not always and that part is not done live (plugging in).
With that, its more estimation with imagination and exploring rather than improv. I get the chance to do what I wish I would’ve done or notes and scales I just couldn’t get around to IN the song itself. I use bass playing as a second chance to make the songs more complicated than they already were. I used to hate bass playing, having to write bass lines for bass players. But I enjoy it a lot more lately even though I don’t expect myself to remember any of it later, a bass player can figure it out. I expect myself to remember everything else though. As of now, unless something is written on keyboards, I rarely use them anymore because there’s more going on with the bass playing and keyboards definitely conflict with bass and guitars, and also thin them out or weaken them.
It’s a shame that it’s almost impossible to hear bass playing on people’s cell phones. I’ve been working on that lately, a way or a production for it to break through.
Since I do the most of it live anyway, I have goals and intentions of playing live, as in touring this year and making myself sound like more of a band than on previous tours. Almost everything I write and record these days is with the intention of playing it live and regularly. I think it’s important for someone who supposedly “records in their basement” to prove it that they can do it live, perform their own music, complete, without an app, software, copy/paste or whatever does the work for them. It’s not that people expect that musicians should prove it that they can do it live, but it’s easier for them to forget about you if you don’t. I don’t want to be one of those bands that gets away with not backing their shit up. I’d rather give “this is how” rather than “I don’t know”, being more explicit and less vague.
Glimpses Into The Void
In the Noisy interview you did years ago, you say that when you write lyrics you mentally have to go somewhere you don’t want to go. You talk about not only your own future and past, but stepping into other people’s future and pasts. Does that same methodology apply to your Album ‘Victims of the Times’ and the latest singles you’ve released?
Yes, that’s true these days more than it was back then, that was filmed in 2010 by the way. What I write today is unfortunately real, reality and not vague.
Recently I’d been writing about self hate, mania and projecting within multiple personalities and double lives all rolled into one. It goes into those who forgot who they were, what they did, said or whoever they were in their other lives, for example. But they’ll tell me I’m the one who’s in hell or crazy for seeing it. It goes from that into masochists, sadists and gluttons that are unaware of being one-in-the-same, dysfunction, low self esteem, lies, deliberately fake or dead people who can’t wake up and all kinds of shitty things, as well as psychiatric evaluations that turn into mirrors, etc etc
It’s mostly based off of what I’ve seen, heard, experienced and witnessed. It’s not only about writing my truth, it’s about writing the truth. That is definitely going in to a dark place and it’s questions that unfortunately I have to answer but the more I write the more I feel I learn about people and what they really are, it all adds up. I’ve seen some truly sick shit and sick people. In a way, I think it’s therapeutic, it’s better to dwell on it for weeks writing about it, letting it all out and leaving nothing left to be said than it is to not write about it and dwell or obsess on it for years.
I’ll write about how you might not know the stories, reasons and hard times of all people on the street, the homeless and why they’re there, like you might think you do. There’s a hint of… how you never know, it could be you next and homelessness can be just a few bad breaks away. It’s easier to blame the “bum” than whatever selfish pieces of shit put them there or didn’t care to prevent it, or thought they needed to “learn the hard way” on skid row. Those people never have to clean up the mess. Being truly alone is a way it happens. If you’ve either had no one in your life or only people who deeply did not give a fuck about you or what happens to you, then you can relate more than you think. Not everyone’s a crack head and not everyone has the same story. Some used to be something/somebody or more than you’d think. No one says you have to give away everything you’ve worked for and clean up the mess made by others, but do something, because like their signs sometimes say, “anything helps”, and it’s a lot more than nothing. You don’t have to have both feet in that world to understand it, just one is enough.
Over the last year or so, I’ve mellowed out on this subject because no matter how it’s written and talked about, it’s a place that only becomes more disturbing or frustrating to go in to. It’s hard enough to get people to see it for what it is. I have a book coming soon that explains a lot of this but I might be summing it up better here, or spoiling it, just in case you pick up the new record and say “hey, there’s only a couple songs about homelessness, what the fuck”.
Black metal lyrics, including my own, never spoke to me or lent itself to what I’m writing about nowadays, or not enough. I tried to think they were relatable, but they weren’t.
Victims of Dissonant Worlds
Your music is very unique, from the range of sound it has, to the different ‘genres’ it may be a part of. Many would even argue you’ve pioneered a genre of your own. Would you agree with this? How do you feel about musicians, or just the idea of sticking to solely one genre and hyper fixating on it?
No, I haven’t pioneered anything, no one’s figured it out yet and it probably won’t catch on, there’s not an image to go with it. I just wanted to do my own thing.
Yeah I don’t understand how people stick to playing one thing forever.
I couldn’t say “well, it’s a paycheck, who cares if it sucks or if I’m bored to death and ran out of ideas, the people will buy it anyway”. I’d rather eat shit and quit than do that.
That would be like playing a piano with only 4 keys on it for the rest of my life and pretending like I’m doing something new.
After someone’s been a “musician” for whatever like 20-30 years, you’d think they’d be capable of more than just one thing. Instead I’m like “seriously, you’ve been at it for 25 years and all you can do is rip off black sabbath or mayhem?” They just don’t care or have given up. How those people stay inspired is the real question, maybe they don’t.
If you were to describe your music, how would you describe it?
It just sounds like what’s in my head or a reflection of how I feel or maybe how others do, regardless of whatever genre it may be at any given time. I could describe it as something that needs to defy assumptions and confuse. It just sounds miserable no matter what kind I do, maybe that’s where the title Inevitably Dark came from, but there’s more of a fire, spark, spite or anger in it, or behind it, than you’d think.
On that same note, how, if at all, do you want your music to be known as? Are you proud of the old black metal days? Do you wish that more people would dissociate that music with who you are now? Do you ever still feel like you relate more to those black metal days?
I do my best as of nowadays for it to be known as Xasthur and not some genre that everyone’s jumping on or whatever’s hot. No, I have no control over people’s tastes or what they’d gravitate to, no matter what I’d wish. I’ve learned to accept that I can’t change minds or make people accept something and I shouldn’t have to.
I know that what I’ve been doing in 2023 makes up for not doing black metal, and then some. It’ll take years for that to be seen though.
The old days, well they’re gone. I had a few quality pieces, there’s a few songs here and there that I dig and a lot that I don’t, so it’s not enough to be proud of, especially as a whole. It’s not enough for me to miss it, want to pursue or redo it again for more than a minute every 10 to 15 years for the sake of “if I knew then what I know now”, if nothing else. I don’t relate to my own black metal just as much as I don’t relate to any of the millions of bands doing it.
About a year ago, I made almost a dozen “black metal” songs because I wondered if I could still do it. I did it to mix things up a bit and that it would be at time where it wasn’t expected anymore. Adding those kinds of lyrics and vocals with putting on some corpse paint to do it would’ve made it more like doing something I don’t believe in anymore, so I didn’t. But then I got over it and stopped with that “style” because I knew that’s not who I am or want to be for the rest of my life and musically I quit before getting into a rut and before it started to sound like everyone else. Just passing through, I don’t live here. I did it because I didn’t have to. I quit because I could.
Creating, Destroying, and Everything In Between
What’s the hardest part about creating something?
When it’s a habit or routine, it’s not that hard, when it’s not or if you’ve gotten out of the habit for a while, then it’s harder. When I have a lot of ideas that are hitting me all at once but I’m tired and feel like shit, that can be hard. Doing it without much space, time and privacy can be hard, but again, I gotta do what I gotta do. Remembering and keeping track of everything I write is pretty hard, I find a way, but I need to focus on that more than writing more. I might even have reasons to rehearse it all. Driving and writing lyrics at the same time is pretty hard.
As an artist, how do you deal with things like writer’s block? Do you ever feel that you get stuck in the ruts of not being able to create?
I very rarely have writers block. Sometimes, I try to make myself stop but I keep on writing more instead of taking a break. But I used to have writers block bad when not being able to find anything new in black metal. I’ve found a lot of ways and means to prevent it since. Distortion used to give me writers block and I couldn’t remember songs, because it was distorted, as in, not clear.
When people see the amount of success that your music has had, and they maybe put you in this category of being a ‘black metal icon’ or this ‘underground legend’ status, how do you feel? Do these titles mean anything to you? What’s something that you wish they knew when they praise your music as they would bands like Burzum or Nargaroth?
Everyone’s an icon, so it doesn’t matter. However someone’s supposed to feel about being one, I’m pretty sure I don’t. I have to work too hard for whatever I make happen and get in return to be “legendary” or “iconic”, more doors would open if I was. I don’t expect anyone to praise it, I wish that most of it had been better than what it was.
To people who love your music and want to do what you do, to the people who want to create meaningful and impactful music the way you have, what advice can you give them?
I appreciate you asking. I think I usually talk ideas and solutions more than advice, usually that doesn’t go over well too well with people. Any advice is spread out through the answers I’ve given. Other than that, compete with yourself and not with what everyone else is doing. Don’t listen to uncreative people. Have a vision and be driven. Make it worth your time, somehow. The genre of your imagination or what’s really inside of you hasn’t been done yet, so go for it. Thank you for doing this interview and for the questions.
Follow Scott Conner and Xasthur on Instagram by clicking here, buy his merch by clicking here or here, and listen to Xasthur on Spotify by clicking here.
